Good vs Evil
I’ve had this idea percolating for a while. I was reminded more strongly of it as I just left a comment on Dave Johnson’s blog on his latest ‘bile vs jsf heros’ entry (which he will no doubt delete shortly). Dave managed to post TWICE about this, with thinly veiled insults hurled in my general direction. He points out that Rick Hightower has successfully defended JSF, while ignoring that Rick, pleasant chap though he is, is hardly an unbiased third party. His livelihood depends on JSF, so nobody is going to die of shock when they find out that he is quite the JSF biblethumper.
Anyway, enough digression. Back to good vs evil. In javaland, there are two fairly distinct camps. How can you tell which is which? Easy, just look at the tools and products they use.
The side of evil’s web framework of choice is Struts (moving onto JSF now that everyone else laughs and points at their struts apps). The side of evil will always run their webapps on Tomcat. The side of evil’s idea of J2EE is JBoss. The side of good on the other hand will use pretty much anything but Struts. The side of good will run their apps on Resin or Orion.
In terms of editors, the side of evil prefers Eclipse. The side of evil is almost exclusively pure Windows users, and wouldn’t know a cross platform issue if it yanked off their genitalia and slapped them in the face with it. The side of good uses IDEA, because they’re not afraid of paying for quality software.
This extends into build tools as well. The side of evil will persistently keep trying to shoehorn maven into their projects and pretend they’re enjoying it. The side of good would rather gnaw off their own unmentionables than touch maven, and merrily keep getting things done faster, better, and lighter with ant (without paying Bruce Tate any denomination of any currency).
The side of evil scare easily, but are often too spineless to become genuinely angry. They’ll wring their hands, tut feebly, and maybe even mumble incoherently before going on with their bigoted preconceived notions. The side of good on the other hand will scoff at evil when it can, or maintain a polite public face while scoffing in private.
Of course, this extends into libraries too! When it comes to PDF’s, the side of evil will use FOP and apache malware. The side of good on the other hand will go further afield and nuzzle up to iText and other lesser known brands.
To be fair, there are many people that straddle than big fat blurry line between good and evil. To you I say your flimflamming cannot last forever. Sooner or later, you will be forced to commit to either the forces of good or forces of evil. The forces of evil have the strength of numbers. They have untold peons, peasants, and halfwits bleating their cause. The forces of good are few, but as long as this isn’t real life, the forces of good will win out in the end.
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:00 pm
Thanks god i am using IDEA, otherwise i would be allready in hell.
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:02 pm
Oh no! I use Tomcat with Netbeans 4b. I would use IDEA but I program for fun and so paying is out. Maybe I will go to a lesser hell.
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:17 pm
Guess I am somewhat evil. Oh well. But definitely am on the good side when it comes to Struts/JSF. I think. So what is the good side there?
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:17 pm
Nietzsche taught us that “Beyond Good and Evil” there is always “The Will to Power” :)
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:18 pm
Oh I forgot to say - “Preach it Brother!”. Or is that BibleThumping? :)
September 23rd, 2004 at 1:32 pm
Good timing on this blog entry (hardly a bile, is it?), considering Star Wars trilogy has just been released on DVD. On “The Empire Strikes Back” at 1h34m19s mark, it’s clear that Lucas has digitally altered Darth Vader’s IDE. In the original he was clearly using emacs, but now he’s using Eclipse to program the Death Star v2.0.
September 23rd, 2004 at 2:10 pm
Just because I use the word “bile” in my title does not mean that I am specifically referring to you. There are many other spewers of bile in this world. You don’t have a total monopoly on bile, ya know. If it makes you feel better, delete this comment ;-)
September 23rd, 2004 at 2:32 pm
I’m still hurt Dave deleted MY comments, which are obviously the most erudite and literate of the comments he’s ever likely to get, because I’m all eruditish and literate-like, you know.
September 23rd, 2004 at 3:25 pm
Who wants to pair-program with me? … Anyone?
September 23rd, 2004 at 3:28 pm
Wow, “Orion” and “good” in the same sentence. I really wish I had photoshop’ed your t-shirt now! ;-)
September 23rd, 2004 at 3:33 pm
You forgot Spring. Which side are they on?
:)
September 23rd, 2004 at 4:06 pm
nice to see childish part of Hani. Hello boy!
September 23rd, 2004 at 4:34 pm
I’m Evil, Evil I tell you. E-E-E-E-V-V-V-I-I-L-L!
September 23rd, 2004 at 4:48 pm
OK, I program all J2SE apps. Never needed to touch the web layer, thank you. Neither used Struts, nor any other framework. Accordingly, using Maven or not is not a big deal. I’m loyal to IDEA.
Where exactly between heaven and hell am I?
September 23rd, 2004 at 4:50 pm
Eclipse with Tapestry… hmmm…
September 23rd, 2004 at 5:06 pm
I am evil bcoz i dont have money –ha ha hee hu hu ho ho ho !!
September 23rd, 2004 at 5:17 pm
I personally have a strong dislike for JSF. Once again, a nice idea abused like an innocent 4th grader trying to become an altar boy. Anyone willing to back it as if it’s a well thought out tool that will help increase productive and slowly eliminate all of these MVC frameworks. And for anyone willing enough to play devils advocate must have some malicious purpose behind misguiding the masses.
JSF SLUTS!
-Dr. Java
Tips for Tricks!
September 23rd, 2004 at 6:52 pm
I’ve wet my hands on both sides. So I guess I’m going to “Purgatory”.
September 23rd, 2004 at 8:19 pm
Regarding:
?He points out that Rick Hightower has successfully defended JSF, while ignoring that Rick, pleasant chap though he is, is hardly an unbiased third party. ?His livelihood depends on JSF, so nobody is going to die of shock when they find out that he is quite the JSF biblethumper?
In my mind, I was *not*defending JSF. I was giving my honest opinion and experience with it. I feel my opinion is more valid than someone who has not used it on a production project. I feel my opinion is more valid than someone who has never used it.
If being evil means liking JSF, Maven and Eclipse then I must be evil. I don’t dislike IntelliJ. I was given a free copy. I am comfortable with Eclipse and like it. I don’t switch IDEs that often. It is not high on my priority list. I have a lot of friends who love IntelliJ and love Tapestry.
Yes I do make money doing JSF. I also make money off of working with Hibernate, Spring, JBoss, Tomcat, Apache commons and many more tools. I guess I can’t have an opinion on those tools either.
I have used Struts. I feel WebWork is much better designed, but… most of my clients still use Struts…. so I use Struts. Does this make me evil too? If I had a choice of a Struts project, a Tapestry project or a WebWork project, I would pick the Tapestry project. I like the event-driven, GUI component model. I actually bid on working on a Tapestry project earlier this year. I did not get the job (budget was cancelled) so I took a job doing JSF–the life of a contract programmer.
Here are some more points to see if I am good or evil.
I don?t care if you use JSF or don?t use JSF. I prefer Maven to Ant.
I prefer declarative transaction mgmt with Spring than doing it with EJB.
I dig AOP, but don?t think it is the cure for world hunger.
I dig IOC, ditto.
I prefer Hibernate to almost all JDO implementations.
I prefer Hibernate to EJB CMP/CMR.
I prefer Resin and Tomcat to JBoss. I don?t dislike JBoss, WebLogic or WebSphere.
I read the bile blog.
September 23rd, 2004 at 9:01 pm
I am one of Struts (wrote 2 struts books) that thinks JSF is evil.
.V
September 23rd, 2004 at 9:24 pm
Why does Vic think it is evil?
September 23rd, 2004 at 11:44 pm
I vote Evil. Evil gets the chicks, has the better uniform, gets the better lines, and has more fun.
September 24th, 2004 at 1:02 am
“”"”I vote Evil. Evil gets the chicks, has the better uniform, gets the better lines, and has more fun.”"”"
Too funny. :o)
September 24th, 2004 at 3:50 am
“I have used Struts. I feel WebWork is much better designed, but… most of my clients still use Struts…. so I use Struts. Does this make me evil too?”
Well, no. What makes you evil is that you biblethump JSF. If you think Tapestry is better than JSF (which it is) and that WebWork is better that Struts (which it is) then you should post blog entries like, “JSF sucks, Tapestry Rocks” or “Why can’t JSF be like Tapestry” or “Why didn’t the JSF people want to hear what Howard Lewis Ship had to say” or “JSF is only good if you work for clients who are too stupid to switch to Tapestry” or “Why can’t Struts be more like WebWork”. You have said about a trillion times in the last ten days on like a gazillion blogs, articles etc… that THE stack is JSF –> Spring –> Hibernate. Well that’s just wrong. If I told you that THE stack was JSF –> Spring –> JDO (or EJB/CMP), what would you say? Probably that I was an assistant crack whore for some bushwackity special interest. Then when I told you that I had just written a book on JDO, then what would you say? It’s not that you can’t comment on software projects that you are involved in, it’s when you start to say things that basically equate to bullshit, expect us to fall for it and not notice that you are doing all this biblethumping because you haven’t even tried Tapestry yet AND have a book AND a reputation to promote. So now that you have already basically admitted it, why don’t you go back to all the places which you have stated otherwise and say that THE stack is Tapestry –> Spring –> Hibernate?
September 24th, 2004 at 4:43 am
I have been programming is ASP.NET since VS.NET Beta 1. Almost all of my Java experience is limited to backend programming. I haven?t done presentation tier work in Java until recently. Recently I?ve decided to do a small project using java presentation tier technologies. I evaluated Struts, Spring MVC, Tapestry and JSF and I actually like JSF better. May be due to my ASP.NET background. I feel very productive with JSF over the other technologies I considered.
Pratheep P
September 24th, 2004 at 4:43 am
how can FOP be evil!?
OK, its one of those generally nasty Apache products, BUT - its based on proper XML standards. iText on the other hand is some proprietary half baked API wank. It doesn’t conform to anything, and so iText based stuff isn’t reusable within the enterprise. I use FOP, and can reuse my templates within Java, Perl or PHP apps without any troubles.
Can you say the same of iText?
September 24th, 2004 at 6:47 am
Im using IDEA to make a jsf project which a package and deploy with ant on tomcat.. am i fucked?
September 24th, 2004 at 7:30 am
I think Hani may have been inspired by the recent release of the Star Wars DVD. This definition of the good-jedi programmer is almost as pretentious as Paul Graham’s definitiion of the ‘ultimate hacker’. Oh, I’m a good-Jedi. Come over here little boy and look inside my toolbox. My lightsaber is bigger and brigher than your’s.
Jackass, some may view as good and others bad. But frankly the majority calmly dismisses you as a silly Ewok.
How about a new mantra, all biblethumping is evil. Or maybe more appropriate, all genitalia-pulling, including Hani’s weekly yank, is evil.
And yes, I am evil. My social security number has 666 right in the middle of it.
September 24th, 2004 at 8:35 am
itext is total S*** and EVIL
ALL web-frameworks are EVIL, but JSF gets the crown
September 24th, 2004 at 10:20 am
“In my mind, I was *not*defending JSF. I was giving my honest opinion and experience with it. I feel my opinion is more valid than someone who has not used it on a production project. I feel my opinion is more valid than someone who has never used it.” If you’re willing to use crap in production just because it beefs up your resume, than you’re one of those people that “Just because mommy has a golden dildo under her bed, it doesn’t mean it’s cool to hear it chatter against your teeth.”
That’s just crazy.
Also,
“how can FOP be evil!?
OK, its one of those generally nasty Apache products, BUT - its based on proper XML standards. iText on the other hand is some proprietary half baked API wank. It doesn’t conform to anything, and so iText based stuff isn’t reusable within the enterprise. I use FOP, and can reuse my templates within Java, Perl or PHP apps without any troubles. ”
FOP is a pile of poop. I used FOP in production and under heavy load with large PDF’s, it craps out. Nice in theory, but it sucks under load. Granted, iText doesn’t have as much support for templates as FOP, but it rocks in terms of performance and it’s not very hard to work with.
-Dr. Java
September 24th, 2004 at 11:32 am
What about websphere users?
We have feelings too!
September 24th, 2004 at 12:21 pm
Hani, are you evil or good ?
September 24th, 2004 at 1:49 pm
WebSphere users are already in hell, not much more you can do to them…
September 24th, 2004 at 2:35 pm
In Rick Hightower’s defense, I must say that the business we are in (Java consulting) is driven by the people with the money.
We call these people “customers”, for lack of any other term we can use in public. More often than not they come to us with the
idea already in their head of how they want the systems implemented. Most of the time they do not ask advice on the actual
technology to be used.
Rick and I have had many conversations along the lines of purity vs. getting work. I have always been
an intolerable snob when it comes to technology (having gone from Apple -> NeXT -> Java) and my opinions are rarely conciliatory
to any technology I find badly designed. Like Struts. I have hated that pile of crap since I first saw it. My experience with
JSF was more reserved until I got a chance to use it in a production environment. Then I realized that it was a complete
toy, without any real enterprise utility.
I can see that if you were coming from Struts it was like a godsend - it doesn’t make you jump through quite so many hoops
or require an indexable source tree to find simple action methods. However if you have any experience at all with something
like Tapestry (which owes its existence to WebObjects, itself an incredibly forward-thinking framework now stagnated to
irrelevance), you realize that most web developers who do not are akin to the preface to “The Unix Hater’s Handbook”,
edited here for dramatic effect:
“I liken starting one’s computing career with [Struts] to being born in East Africa. It is intolerably hot, your body is covered with lice and flies, you are malnourished and you suffer from numerous curable diseases. But, as far as young East Africans can tell, this is simply the natural condition and they live within it. By the time they find out differently, it is too late. They already think that the writing of [Action classes] is a natural act.”
No kidding.
However, back to the point. Rick is an amazingly talented individual. I’ve worked with him for a number of years and his
ability to quickly absorb the true nature of a piece of software is striking to behold. An even bigger talent is the
ability to express these views through his books, articles, courseware and consulting services. Do not mistake this
for “biblethumping”, as you accuse him. It is marketing, because he wants to get business. No one will
hire a consultant who berates the technology that is chosen for a project. When the customers eventually ask for these
other technologies Rick will be there with expert knowlege and guidance. This does not make him a technological windsock,
but a good businessman.
September 24th, 2004 at 4:34 pm
Beware of false teachers who come disguised as harmless sheep, but are wolves and will tear you apart. You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit. You need never confuse grapevines with thorn bushes or figs with thistles.
-Dr. Nada
Tips for Dicks
September 24th, 2004 at 6:44 pm
Why are you guys picking on the Joint Strike Fighter? Its an amazing machine!
Also, what does any of this have to do with car struts, your boss Jay, the Apache indians, solar eclipses, ideas, ants, tom-cats or coffee?!?
Or am I way off base?
September 24th, 2004 at 7:00 pm
Ohhhh I get it now!!
I had no idea it mattered which way my Java Server Faces!!
South would be down, the devil is said to be down below, so south sounds bad to me. The devil is evil, right? West and East both face the sun at some point and I wouldn’t want my Java Servers Face in the sun.
I guess that only leaves North or perhaps standing on end facing up??
What do you guys recommend? I am very concerned.
September 24th, 2004 at 11:40 pm
I find that if you put the server upside down, it runs better, because all the electricity runs to the CPU.
September 25th, 2004 at 12:09 pm
Notice the author is tied into the Orion company, do I sense a bit of bias here?
September 25th, 2004 at 11:29 pm
Read Dr. Java’s rant
http://www.jroller.com/page/RickHigh/20040925#oh_no_dr_java_a
September 25th, 2004 at 11:31 pm
See my response to Dr. Java response to my comments to this entry.
http://www.jroller.org/page/RickHigh/20040925#oh_no_dr_java_a
September 26th, 2004 at 10:47 am
Having spent the last couple of days playing Star Wars Battlefront (as the true Empire, none of this clone/droid nonsense) I take Hani’s description of me as evil with pride.
I use Maven (custom Ant scripts get boring), Eclipse (I don’t waste money), Tomcat (again, I don’t waste money). On the PDF side, I would probably not use FOP, but only because I think it’s just an XSL-FO system which I would rarely want.
On the JSF subject, I’m of two minds. On the first hand, JSF is an ugly mess when you lift up the cover; on the other hand, it’s that way because it only pays attention to the IDE user, so for the IDE user it is palatable.
As far as axis-of-evil for this issue, I’m a member of the Old Republic. JSP is fine, custom-taglibs are great and MVC is a philosophy not a framework. Struts/Webwork are more trouble than they are worth and while Tapestry/WebObjects is nice, it’s not for me yet. Velocity was good btw, but JSP matches it now except for ease of use outside a server.
So all you evil MVCers, your days are numbered.
September 26th, 2004 at 12:02 pm
I mostly agree with Henri. I prefer Resin to Tomcat. But Tomcat 5.0x is really good. If you have not used Tomcat in a while, give Tomcat 5.0x a chance. I can configure it to start in less than 4 seconds.
I don’t agree about JSF only applying to IDE users. I find it quite natural and easy to use without any drag&drop capabilities. I feel Henri would feel the same way.
I don’t agree that WebWork/Struts are more trouble than they are worth. I would rather do Struts/WebWork then use JSP without it. I have never used Velocity on a web project. I like Velocity, I hope someone adds (I think they have already) support Velocity support for JSF.
Tapestry and JSF, in a year, will be the frameworks that most new web projects will be written in.
Struts is still the undisputed, number 1, web framework being used. You can like it or lump it, but chances are you are going to have to use it.
–Evil Web Framework Minion
–a.k.a. Rick Hightower
September 26th, 2004 at 5:16 pm
My comment to Hani’s comment about his comment about my comment… whew!
Thanks Hani for you comments:
Hani writes:
“Rick, you’re biased because of the fact that you stand to directly benefit financially from the success of JSF. It’s not an insult, and I don’t mean it as such. All I’m pointing out is that you’re not necessarily choosing JSF as the best technology, that you had decided early on (when it very clearly had many teething issues) that you’re going to hitch your wagon to that particular spec. ”
I benefit from Tapestry, Struts, Hibernate, and Spring. Does this make me unbiased? ArcMind has used Tapestry. ArcMind is currently using Tapestry on a project! We get paid to do Tapestry!
Hani writes (comment on my blog):
“THAT decision back then might have been unbiased, but the fact that you now have a training course, a book, and depend on it financially probably more than most Expert Group members means that while you’re an authority on JSF, you’re not the best person to ask when it comes to a level-headed analysis of whether JSF is any good compared to everythig else out there. ”
Thank you Hani for your comments. I understand you position. I don’t agree with you. I admit to being biased, but my opinion still matters. I am biased against many things. I am biased for many things. I did not say JSF was perfect. I said it was good. I did not say Tapestry was bad. I said JSF was good. My experience with JSF has been very good. I find it productive. If you are starting a new web project I would *strongly* suggest using Tapestry or JSF instead of Struts or other Model 2 frameworks. I still use Struts on some projects. I prefer JSF.
This is my last comment so help me. I did not see your earlier comment and I wanted to respond.
September 26th, 2004 at 9:59 pm
Whatever happened to the “Microsoft guys are evil, Java guys are good” slogan !!!!
September 26th, 2004 at 10:19 pm
In my opinion, developing a web application that will work only on crappy Internet Explorer is PURE EVIL. Same thing goes on developing a Java application that will work only on crappy Windows. No remorse for such timid insight on development.
September 26th, 2004 at 11:23 pm
“Yes I do make money doing JSF. I also make money off of working with Hibernate, Spring, JBoss, Tomcat, Apache commons and many more tools. I guess I can’t have an opinion on those tools either.” — Rick
Of course you can, and by all means, you put it online ASAP. What do you think hani uses as raw material ? I just can’t conceive a world without wimps to bash (no hard feelings pal)
:)
September 27th, 2004 at 5:06 am
—
Whatever happened to the “Microsoft guys are evil, Java guys are good” slogan !!!!
—
Hani is microsoft mole whois commisioned to split java crowd into 2 parts, namely the genitelia pullings and the nipple lickings.
September 27th, 2004 at 8:49 am
At least the axis of evil was easy to understand. Hani’s definition of good vs evil is completely schytzo.
September 27th, 2004 at 8:58 am
“I dig AOP” - Rick
What are you, stuck in the sixties or something? Next, you’ll be telling us it’s groovy.
Wake up, man. It’s the nineties already.
September 27th, 2004 at 9:09 am
Hani is microsoft mole whois commisioned to split java crowd into 2 parts, namely the genitelia pullings and the nipple lickings.
Let’s see how long it takes before Gerald Bauer puts up a poll ..
September 27th, 2004 at 3:13 pm
AOP is far-out groovey! It is heavy man.
To the person that called me a cry baby, I’d like to say the following: “waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!”
September 27th, 2004 at 3:16 pm
Rick Hightower spits out crap from both ends. (example: mastering resin)
September 27th, 2004 at 8:34 pm
Yes. Thanks for bringing that one up. Not a proud moment.
Here is a proud moment:
Java Tools for eXtreme Programming. This book was the #1 best selling Java Book for three months on Amazon. Review from Dr. Dobb’s Journal (April 2002) “It is … a pleasure to review … books that are both original and useful. The first is Richard Hightower and Nicholas Lesiecki’s Java Tools for Extreme Programming, which describes five new Open-Source Java programming tools… Java Tools is readable and well organized… As a bonus, the authors show how to use these tools together; for example, how to automate reexecution of JUnit tests using Ant.”
-Gregory V. Wilson
Check out the full review at http://www.ercb.com/ddj/2002/ddj.0205.html
I regret the Resin book. I ended up not doing very much of it. Wiley used my name anyway. I will never let that happen again. I wont sacrifice quality.
If you want my true writing style read Jakarta Struts Live which is free on the TheServerSide.com.
September 27th, 2004 at 8:41 pm
Here is my recent writing style. I apologize about the Resin book. I’ve written other books (some good, some not as good).
http://www.theserverside.com/books/sourcebeat/JakartaStrutsLive/index.tss
I think I learned a lot. I feel my next book (nothing planned) will be much better than my first few.
September 28th, 2004 at 9:59 am
“Good and evil do not exist”
Nivek Ogre
September 28th, 2004 at 11:53 am
Let’s evaluate the situation against my personal crap-o-meter.
Does Richard Hightower…
1. Write books? yep (1)
2. …published by O’Reilly? think so (0.5)
3. Present courses? yes (1)
4. Own http://www.rickhightower.com? maybe (0.5)
5. Blog voluminously? yep (1)
6. …about trivial stuff? IMO (1)
7. …without attracting any comments? check (1)
8. Post comments on other blogs? yeah (1)
9. …advertising his own software? yep (1)
With a score of 8/9, it’s fairly obvious that the individual in question is full of crap and anything he says should be treated with extreme skeptism.
September 28th, 2004 at 2:35 pm
Here is mine:
1. Hides behind a fake name +1
2. Makes up things based on feelings +1
That is 2 for 2.
It is easy to sit behind a fake name and spew bile. Show your bravery by using your real name like Hani. Hani is brave, brash and creative. You are not.
There are plenty of comments on my blog. I spend most of my time consulting not teaching. Teaching is a good segue to consulting. I stopped producing http://www.rickhightower.com about 8 months ago. I’ve spoken on my blog about such trivial things as SCM, Version Control, TDD, effective development…. all mere trivia–not.
How do you define trivia, the absents of referernces to gentilia. I have no software to advertise, but I will soon. I have *not* been published by Orielly–I like Orielly.
I hardley ever blog except lately after being biled… I came out of my spider hole and started blogging.
Read Drews comment he has actually worked with me:
“Rick is an amazingly talented individual. I’ve worked with him for a number of years and his
ability to quickly absorb the true nature of a piece of software is striking to behold.”
Blushing…. Thanks for you comments thought leader….
September 28th, 2004 at 11:13 pm
Yeah Rick, the resin book is a pile of CRAP. It’s looks like you or your coauthor just took the doc directory off of the caucho.com and printed in the book format. Useless.
Oh yeah another thing, JSF is the biggest ASP.NET rip off since Microsoft Stole the Windows Idea from Apple, which in turn stole it from Xerox, who in turn stole it from Unix, and who in turn stole it from that guy down the street, that lives in the box with no windows. Get it, he has no windows, be cause they were stolen. hahahahahahah.
September 29th, 2004 at 2:41 am
Howzit Richard, my name is Alan McLachlan, although you may not have heard of me because I am skilled enough to be employed without marketing my name online and through books.
Thanks for correcting the crap-o-meter score, but that’s still a best-case scenario of 6/9, more than enough for me to treat your comments as white noise. Lord knows Hani scores about 4/9 and one has to take his opinions with a pince of salt.
September 29th, 2004 at 10:23 am
I thought Microsoft was the Evil Empire. I thought Good vs. Evil was Microsoft vs. Java. Why can’t we Java folks all get along.
Actually I kinda love Microsoft and despise IBM and think SUN folks are kinda stupid. I love Java but secretly enjoy watching C#. Am I a sinner?
September 29th, 2004 at 2:43 pm
You’re Jesus, you can not be a sinner. Anything you say goes.
September 29th, 2004 at 7:41 pm
I think you’re full of shit. So the tools you use are good, and the alternatives are evil. Can you back that up with any kind of reasoning?
September 29th, 2004 at 9:49 pm
Nice to meet you Alan. If I remember correctly, I had a job before I started writing books and articles.
Regarding:
“Thanks for correcting the crap-o-meter score, but that’s still a best-case scenario of 6/9, more than enough for me to treat your comments as white noise.”
I don’t know how I will sleep at night knowing that you will treat what I say as white noise. Shudder…
September 30th, 2004 at 12:46 am
LOL.
Who needs Comedy Central when you have Hani’s Bile Blog and comments posted by SissyFight.com veterans?
Having worked with Struts, i would say that it’s poor solution for web apps that require complex views. I am sick of coding huge taglibs infested JSP’s.
I will try Tapestry and see what all fuss is about.
Peace.
September 30th, 2004 at 2:29 am
—
I thought Microsoft was the Evil Empire. I thought Good vs. Evil was Microsoft vs. Java. Why can’t we Java folks all get along.
—
We get along only when we’re into circle jerk.
September 30th, 2004 at 8:28 am
In response to Lee and Dr.Java regarding FOP:
I used FOP with an automated system that created FO files that were 6 - 10mb and the graphics 120mb (300dpi for print) the end PDF ended up approaching 130mb. At no point did it “crap out” and if that is not high load I dunno. Maybe it is programmer misuse/lack of knowledge in your case Dr.Java ;-)
Also, as Lee said it uses industry standard XSL-FO and I could go out and buy expensive commercial XSL-FO processors, but hey may as well use FOP as it is open source/free..
iText on the other hand is a proprietory java API which is not portable across languages/platforms…
To be honest this bile is a bit ridiculous you can’t just label every product with the name Apache in front evil.
September 30th, 2004 at 9:36 pm
FOP is worth every penny one pays for it. So is my opinion. Peace.
October 1st, 2004 at 5:01 am
I take it Tdak is a spotty juvenile with bum-fluff stuck to his face instead of a beard. If he has no idea of the order that things were produced in computing history, he’s not going to get very high grades in his exams. What a wank pot.
October 1st, 2004 at 5:15 am
Please excuse my thickness… what is “wank pot”?
October 1st, 2004 at 12:08 pm
JSF is crap because Hani told me so. I don’t have a mind of my own. I can only do what Hani tells me. Different opinions are evil. 20 posts are a billion. People who make money are capitalist pigs.
I am 7 of 99 from the bile blog borg…
JSF is crap because Hani told me so. I don’t have a mind of my own. I can only do what Hani tells me. Different opinions are evil. 20 posts are a billion. People who make money are capitalist pigs.
I am 8 of 99 from the bile blog borg…
JSF is crap because Hani told me so. I don’t have a mind of my own. I can only do what Hani tells me. Different opinions are evil. 20 posts are a billion. People who make money are capitalist pigs. Repeat. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.
October 1st, 2004 at 3:48 pm
“To be honest this bile is a bit ridiculous you can’t just label every product with the name Apache in front evil.”
I beg to differ!
October 1st, 2004 at 5:30 pm
Big fwuckin interresting. U all need balls. Balls of bile. JBoss cums. Maven sucks. Im a retard.
October 4th, 2004 at 6:48 am
What is a wank pot? Well, maybe I should put this on Wikipedia as an interesting historical thread.
A tosspot was an old English word for someone who drank too much (an alcoholic).
A wanker is someone who tugs their own genitalia.
To “toss” or be a “tosser” is modern(ish) English slang for a wanker.
So “tosspot” gradually came to mean a wanker or one with the disposition of a wanker.
Naturally enough this mutated to wankpot, meaning the same as tosspot.
I accidentally put a space in the word wankpot and thereby invented a new phrase on this very blog. So I think a wank pot should be the vessel that everyone aims at in a circle jerk. What you do with the contents afterwards is up to you.
Don’t say you never get educated on the famous Bile Blog.
October 20th, 2004 at 11:39 pm
Regarding:
“Howzit Richard, my name is Alan McLachlan, although you may not have heard of me because I am skilled enough to be employed without marketing my name online and through books.”
Howzit Alan,
There are many people who don’t write books and who don’t market their name online, and are still full of crap. I know. I meet them often. Always use your real name, and start writing opinions in your own blog, then I can tell you how full of crap you are. What fun.
I agree there is a lot of crap out there. And, I am not perfect (I’ve made a mistake or two: see Mastering Resin).
I think skeptism is a good thing. I have debunked many things that are in books, and articles. And, like I said: I make mistakes.
January 11th, 2005 at 11:41 pm
According to your assessment, I’m actually 100% good. Yay me!
:)
February 17th, 2005 at 12:23 pm
I disagree with everthing on this page. You all are morons.